What follows is the translation of an article which I cannot regrettably translate in its entirety because it is full of French reference. In brief, a guy wrote about me and the community of the Pick Up Artists. His article made the buzz indeed I had to answer….
You can read the article in French here.
That is worth it because this answer will allow people who still have understood nothing to the community of the seduction to be maybe a little less wrong. Then I hope that it will make you understand : we are not rapists, manipulators, swindlers, dangerous perverts, pathetic narcissists, a sect which lives in a despicable world out of the reality, etc.
1/ Did you read L’Amour et l’Occident by Denis de Rougemont? I bet you didn’t, otherwise you would know that the conception of the Real Love as we are told about it in the stupid TV showes and everywhere is an European invention which dates from the Middle Ages. All these foolishness do not exist: Love is as much a feeling as a decision or an illusion.
2/ We would believe that you talk about a sect while you just speak about men disappointed by their loving life because the girls that they like always choose the other guys… You speak about guys who took big slaps in the mouth and who decided to take the control of their lives. We are not talking about monsters there, eh !
YES we use principles of communication to improve our communication (it is personal development to become a man more performing … is it THAT bad, trying to improve ?)
What is the problem with the fact that a guy who does not know how to give a woman an orgasm wants to learn? He just wants to give some love, some pleasure, to do good, right? What pissed you off isn’t rather that you do not arrive to do so and that you do not have the courage to learn… then you prefer criticizing those who train hard and succeed ?
3/ The pickup, it is personal, because we do our best to seduce the girls we like. The pickup it is natural also, there is no miracle technique, we just do our best: if that works so much the better otherwise… too bad. We learn to be a philosopher. At the risk of disappointing you: the biggest of the work, we do it on ourselves… not on the others…
If you look for realism, I suggest you to read my Diary of has French PUA because there is everything: the success, but also the doubts and the numerous fails. These numerous fails do not appear in The Game, eh, it lets you think that there is something to seduce ALL the girls but it is a big fake. In the book, he says that he approached absolutely all the girls whom he crosses, and nevertheless he has only some successes to be told. Weird, right? If such a miracle technique existed then these guys would go out with famous actresses, fabulously rich or other hotties and not simply with cute girls. What stands out from it and what is often badly interpreted by the readers (and it is your case): The Pick Up… It is a lifestyle, it is to about rakes any more, ignoring resentful people, envious persons too. And the community of the seduction : it is not only banging chicks, eh, but it also is to open our eyes on the world. Learning the life in fact!
4/ We do not approach girls to sleep with them: we approach them to test them, to see what they have in the stomach and what are their values. A girl who wants to remain virgin until the marriage, (it is her right). We are not going to manipulate her to make her lose her virginity eh … Among these girls towards whom we make the effort to go, often friendly, there is a lot who receive us maliciously. And yes, we want to give love and we find the spite… If you have already made approaches in the street or in clubs you should know that. Then, there are those who use the guys by letting them hope that they are going to sleep with or even just to kiss them so that they pay things… thus it is necessary to settle a limit to see if the girl is honest with us or not. But well, that it is for beginners: with a little of experiment, we quickly see with whom we have to deal!
5/ Concerning, the 3 seconds rule : it is just an advice because otherwise we risk to look at the girl all night long saying to ourselves “and if I had dared, what would have happened? It was maybe the woman of my life”… And so missing an opportunity to live good moments. The problem is that most of the guys have no balls… they prefer to try nothing rather than to try and take the risk of hearing “no”. Most of people did not really realize how short can be life, how it is necessary to take advantage of being alive, and it is a big problem! They grant too much importance for things which have no importance and complicate things where there is no place… because they are not conscious of what is really fundamental. Being a PUA is also learning to armor eh and to give importance, time and energy only in what is really worth it.
Last precision, you find that disgusting, wanting to make love? Thus have a look on the pyramid of Maslow… We need that to be good in our head and thus somebody spread. Living in the frustration, it is never good! Rare are the ones who rise towards the sublime by this way.
6/ Thanks to all these things of personal development, yes, we improve, we shall never become Brad Pitt but we become someone better. Then rather than spending 30€ per month on adopteunmec and 20€ for a night in a club (+5€ / drinks) to finally do nothing and be frustrated by returning home)… It is profitable to buy a 29€ ebook which makes think, to learn how to live a little, to open his eyes on the reality of things and then to be finally able to make profitable his nights and his time.
7/ No, the PUA are not « love coaches ». However, sometimes swindlers self-proclaim PUA while they do not know much about all this, so they can give lessons for 100€ / hour …
8/ My opinion on the 4 sites which you quoted: they are not held by PUA. They are held by people who make their butter by repeating (without knowing how to really put things in perspective) what they read in the ebooks written by PUA. I’m not saying that they are bad or whatever, I just say that it is commercial. They tell to people what they want to hear so that same people have the impression to progress just a little but not too much and continue all the same to go on their site and to buy all their products.
I agree : some (not all) do not even aim at making the others improve, they just want to make money. And it is really the problem, because that discredits all the community.
These sites keep their public for them, because they know that if the public has all the cards at his disposal, he will know how to make the difference between people who know about what they speak, who master their subject, and those who content with showing you the summit of the iceberg for fear of losing their customers (because their shit is easier to hear than the simple and hard truth). We can make nothing against these people because they lock the thing… And then even there is a big mixture which makes that, when we begin as a PUA, we cannot be taken seriously, people do not even read us… we are considered at once as one more swindler !
9/ I’ve read Jon Alexander, the DeAngelo, the blog of Snipe and there… I really began to have results! If I am pissed off, it is because some people on the community of the seduction complicate voluntarily gender relations… Because complicating is the basis to muddle up people.
10/ A PUA will never tell you that he knows everything about everything. With the human being, there are too many parameters to be managed, it is impossible! And it is for the same reason that it is impossible to seduce ALL the girls … We can just optimize and play on the statistics. A PUA will know how to be modest and admit that he is not much in front of Fate. Being a PUA is having made a long way in his head… it is a lot of life lessons…
The purpose of the Game is to create this internal force which makes you go talking to unknowns. The truth is that the society conditions us not to do it, to not be too happy, to live in our glass prison and to close our mouth. But you don’t talk about all that. If you had read my blog a little before speaking about me, you would know that I advocate a direct, frank, sincere game, no technique absurd nor the other shit. Why then these sites which sell such useless products score so much ? Because people wanna dream… If you tell them that they can never be 100 % sure to seduce a girl but that it is not a problem, well, they do not understand. Really needs to don’t be a sheep to accept that… You just have to read the free extract of my ebook (that I sell 29€… it is not expensive to open the eyes.)
What will make of you a PUA… it is the experiment, the culture and the time. Indeed, within 2 years, needs not to hope to become really good. And well, 2 years, it’s not long… some people need around 10 years to be good.
11/ I don’t see what is wrong with showing your progress to people who are interested by keeping a diary, especially if that can motivate them to take their life in hand… what is the problem?
12/ « to assume » it is the basis of the basis when you want to be a PUA.
13/ Otherwise, I tested a LAIR too. The problem is that it is often created by frustrated guys who are useless and who did not understand the thing but who feel sooooo powerful because they created a forum. I experienced it, I stayed 1 year in the LAIR of Aix : they were all weird fellows (Instead of going out they invited each other mutually in their flats and got drunk while speaking about chick and by watching at porn movies). I found there all the same 2 almost-normal (Arnaud and Hafid) so we went out all three together. Then, when we told them our successes, they got angry and treated us as liars (they had a big problem of ego) and banished us.
14/ That reminds me of this advice “be yourself” which we often read on the forums of seduction. In fact, it is a good advice but it is often badly interpreted. In the ideal, it would be necessary to succeed in being yourself, in the contact of your true desires, without social pressure, without all this shit (but without losing the respect for the other one) to finally assume and to do what you want to do… or at least to try !
15/ The good side of the thing is that you dared with the first girl there while your colleagues the small cocks didn’t approach her.
16/ We don’t care about how to approach. Avoid the headache with this bullshit. The most important it is to go and to try. It’s like soccer : we don’t score if we don’t shoot. If we shoot and if it is not centred, it is not very grave we shall try again at the next occasion! Then even sometimes it is centred but it is diverted by a defender and that scores all the same! 😉 On the other hand, if we are just defending… we cannot win a match! 😉
17/ The purpose of the life is to survive and to reproduce.
18/ For a kick in your fat ass, I recommend you once again to read my Diary of a French PUA (feel reassured it is free). The facts are there and I try hard to make it the most objective possible, even if naturally everybody lives in his reality. But mine is constructive and positive… that’s it!
In France, we are really few to know about what we speak… what compromises everybody. The Americans are much more serious than us. Moreover, the best ebooks which I read… were English.
19/ Approaching improves your contact with people, that helps necessarily to be less shy and thus to pick up a woman with a chance to seduce her.
20/ Some are ridiculous, eh, and it is indeed for that reason that they will never be PUA. Ridiculous seducers are nothing more than caricatures of PUA.
Two possibilities : what works and the swindles, that’s it. As far as the proposed contents are serious and good, well, that will maybe exactly help these people to be a little less manipulables/influenceable.
If you read everything and anything, don’t be surprised, eh. But you can find so much shit about the nutrition or body-building, it is not for that reason that some people do not say the truth.
21/ For once that a guy who understood the Game talks, you fall on him because that does not work every time! Everybody is not for everybody, right ? Being attractive or not it is subjective, needs to have the humility to recognize it. Snipe is at the same time brilliant and pathetic, attractive and disgusting, beautiful and ugly … Like me, like us all: that depends in the eyes of whom. The purpose is to find people we like and who like us. No miracle there, just the courage to move on.
I’m just saying that it is necessary to be realistic, there is no miracle method … You put two feet in the shit, you learn and you move on, you announce things or then if have you not enough internal force, you collapse, you fail and you give up. That’s it. But it takes time and neurones. People who sell dream we can always find them, and not only in this environment. The public will be intelligent enough to announce things or he will be satisfied with being deluded with illusions.
I take the comparison to the extreme but let’s admit that you meet a master of tae kwon do. He shows you and explains how to kick. Well, it is not for that that you are going to do it well. You need time to win in flexibility, to learn to use your breath, to create muscle, etc. And to agree to make all these efforts, it is in the head! Trying to pick up is similar !
22/ Oh yeah, the PUA are predators ! This is it : They catch the willing women and hurt them a lot, like making them have a lot of orgasms. Poor victims!
23/ But the sites which are first on Google are the ones which invested a lot of money. Then, these big sites persuade everybody that… that’s it the world of the seduction while not … And nobody dares to contradict them because rare are the guys who made all the travel and who are capable of putting things in perspective… Then yes, the guys who arrive undergo. They are gullible and blinded … and still a little conditioned! But it is the same thing in politics eh, you believe that people who govern us or those of the various parties are there by chance ? One impose them to us, they are not the best. It is similar for the actors, the stars, the singers, the musicians, etc. Rare are the ones who are not pulled strings! And the food, we talk about it? You know that we are conditioned to eat some shit? That one makes you a daily brainwashing with the TV?
24/ Of course seduction and personal development are linked. Learning to seduce women is two things :
– The statistics: thus having the balls to approach a lot to see with which girls to our taste the current flows.
– The optimization : becoming more attractive, learning to better communicate, etc.
Nothing unrealistic in what I tell you… because it is the truth. There is no other miracle method, that is the way it is and then it is everything … accept it or continues to fight against mills.
25/ And you, your job, you do it for free ? To pick up… you need to eat, to dress, a little bit of money to go out, etc. And the hosting of a site, it is not free, you know. Thus, you find that squalid to sell ebooks which help people? From the moment they are not bullshit, that is widely worth 30€ to learn to make profitable his nights out, eh. Where I join you it is that there are many shitty ebooks, written by people who know nothing and who like plagiarizing approximately good authors just to make money. Actually, there are 2000 sites about seduction in France there, but nevertheless I quoted you only 2/3 which I find credible. That’s why our art is discredited. Web is in lack of guys who speak with frankness, with their balls! I say to myself that on the long term, the public will know how to make the difference.
26/ Yes, the money we earn is declared.
Anyway, coach in seduction’s diploma that does not exist in France. But I know a lot of people who have a Master of psychology for example but who don’t understand anything to psychology, eh. They have a diploma but they are hopeless. Conversely, I went to see an old sir who treated backs for years without diploma (word of mouth) and hoooo Miracle I do not have pain any more. The important it is the result…
27/ For what he knows of the psychology and the human behavior: much more than you and than the common run of people. You know, concerning serious people in this domain: we read a lot, we become enlightened, we experiment enormously also… What we talk about, we do not take it out of our hat, eh…
28/ OK, if you are not too stupid you should suspect that : miracle solution = commercial shit.
29/The image that PUA have of the woman, I am going to tell it you: we love them. We adore them, we do our best to please them, to try to understand them and all this to give them some pleasure. And also to marry them when we shall be sure to have found the good one.
30/ A guy is a PUA when he satisfies his need for affection, for sex, when he a little learnt the life and when he feels good in his head. There is not manipulation in this… when we manage to be free in our head, we don’t care about the opinion of the others (especially of those who understood nothing, lived nothing, etc.). We make our best proposal, card on table, sometimes disconcerting of simplicity and we look for people like us who managed to set themselves free from diktats, from the social pressure, and from all these prisons of glasses which prevent us from really living. It is to open their eyes to people that I fight, eh …
But when you manage to set yourself really free, you do not judge the others, you do not judge any more the girls. Never a girl will be thought as a bitch by a PUA because she has fun… on the contrary ! It is people who have problems who piss the others off. Not those who released themselves from these ridiculous considerations.
31/ All these guys who are pains in the ass with the girls because their ego cannot heard the word “no” should be interested a little more in the world of the seduction.
32/ In fact I rather have the impression to be used. For example, last Friday, I went in the party with a guy whom I did not meet. He had never approached in the street or in clubs and he was in bad adventure with the women then he contacted me on FB. They took him for a fool and everything. Nevertheless the guy is really tall, has a stature, is rather a handsome, gets dressed well and made me the impression of being intelligent. At the beginning of the evening, he stayed behind, watched me doing but did not dare to try. After a while, he started to go there. He kissed 3 girls in the evening, he would never have believed that possible. Nevertheless I made this coaching voluntarily … What was the value ?
Then, this same guy read my book about gender relations, 5 days later he slept with a girl by applying what I had written. Yes, he learnt in this book how to create sexual tension. He learnt how to ask for what he wanted while accepting both answers (positive or negative). He thanked me for that. Then 29€ to change in a good way the life of people, is it expensive or not ? No but needs to know also that my “colleagues” arrange so that we never hear about me (all the links are deleted on the forums for example) or then compromise me. The customers send my ebooks free of charge by e-mail while that took more than 5 years of my life to understand all this, and a few months to write it, and some money and time to create the blog. But it doesn’t matter: people do not respect that, they don’t care. The truth is that by continuing in this way, they risk to discourage honest people like me, and will stay only these swindlers. Then I am flabbergasted when guys like you make a big bag, put everybody inside, and throw that to the sea. If you had read a minimum what I write (and I know that you didn’t) you would understand instead of judging hastily … ALL the guys who read my book changed for the better, they started to have mojo and to have the love life they wanted (some got married, others became PUA). It is, in my opinion, the only method 100 % realistic, simple and practicable that I found in France.
The comments :
33/ Why frustrated, shy, uncertain guys, etc. could not learn the state of mind of those who are successful with women ? It is necessary to understand that : women love as much, if not more, sex than us the men. Of course, sex can be an objective just like a serious and spread relation.
Without the learning of the seduction, I would have stayed the guy that I was six years ago, that is to say shy, socially transparent (as well as with women and guys), lacking of confidence.
Today I have confidence, I have my own club for two years, I have a brilliant social circle, I seduce women in a natural way, no more need of “techniques” and you want to know the best : none ever felt betrayed, manipulated nor anything because I am frank. In brief, without the pick up and all the personal development I did, I would never have thought one second of having the quality of life which I have today.
I want sex, very well, I play card on table. I want something serious ? Idem. And in a case like in the other one, women are 95 % satisfied 😉
– Denounces fake love coach (without any legitimacy) who are not even capable of demonstrating their practice and taking refuge behind typical deceptive arguments “I am not going to approach, I have a girlfriend ” as soon as it is question of stopping the claptrap.
Your mixtures are very dangerous, a seducer who rapes, that does not exist, we call that a sex offender (that I despise excessively). In the process of seduction : there are always 2 participants!
But for the great majority of the cases, players are just slightly too kind guys, whose balls were cut by the feminism which try to go out of their sexual dissatisfaction, to understand the women and to have the choice instead of being chosen (for those who are chosen). And you know what? The majority do it because they LOVE women more than whoever, I swear!
Because to arrive at the stage of the “seducer”, when we are not naturally, what is the case of the majority of the guys of the community, otherwise they would not be a part of it, it is necessary to take a lot of rakes, like if we liked sadomasochism. The game brings towards a “journey”, forcing us to question us constantly, to interest us in thousands of subjects, to find us passions etc… To have a life in the reality.
– In the first place, we can be interested in the seduction without necessarily becoming a psychology killer first class manipulator.
If I stayed hanging out on these sites, it is also because we find a real home of self-motivation, questioning, and some moral values all the same.
I am married. Married to a Brazilian, that I met in the street, approached at an exit of the subway. Foreigner, who did not speak French, lost in Paris, who was more than 35 years old and single. I created my luck.
We are two when we make love, thus women are not necessarily “victims” of the manipulations of the men. They are sometimes stronger than us in this game moreover! If both protagonists sleep in toilet it is not necessarily because the girl “wants to please him” let’s be honest… If we listened what women say and not what they do, nobody would have children anymore!
My witnesses in the marriage met their current girlfriends in clubs according to these principles.
Because yes, like in all the circles, there are bastards who use people in trouble as a market to make a business, and others more honest who try to help people to go out of their shyness and to approach/have the courage to seduce the women they like, by supplying them communications tools and knowledge of the man/woman relations in this purpose.
Indeed these men understand women and are also self-aware. Now why swamping the seducers? They create often magnificent moments over the moment. Girls just wanna have fun said the singer. Many women look for a moment without looking for a commitment or anything. Just let’s stop making the women pass as victims. Each often finds some benefit there.
Knowing that it is now necessary to pay a fortune to meet a woman on the Internet (well before meetic I met women by caramail or AOL), or in clubs (nothing is free for men), and the opportunities becoming scarce by the social circle (I come from a very military and labor city and thus very male), why don’t try to approach women in the street for example?
It is better to teach somebody how to go fishing than to give him a fish, isn’t it? And it is not impossible to seduce without techniques of manipulation intended to make her do what she does not want to do. Women also influence with the make-up, the heels, the skirts, etc…
A friend of my wife is from RIO DE JANEIRO and she asked me “how can I make so that the men try to pick up me? I have the impression to do not to please them, nevertheless I dress in a hot way… the Brazilians generally are not ashamed of showing their interest !”
I have explained her the truth which is mine even now “France is a so feminist country that French men are afraid, they are afraid that one shout above them or of being rejected, because of the shame, if they show themselves a little sexual : they are considered as perverts…”
Not that the feminism is a bad thing… quite the opposite, but it is the fact of inverting the roles which is not good !
What the boys try to develop with these tools, it is capacities which are very often innate to the majority of women. They are also in search there of personal fulfillment.
The blog of my colleague advocates the frankness, and an extremely direct “game”. Then maybe we can find that less classy, or less justifiable, but anyway it works very well, and a very large number of girls answer positively to this type of approach who clearly invites to sex without commitment. These girls have not the right to exist? Have they not the right set them free for a while from this tyranny of real love that you advocate?
The feminism should not try to create more barriers between both sexes. Us, we try on the contrary to understand the opposite sex and if possible to share some pleasure, and why no beautiful serious relation when the time has come.
6th June 2013,
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