When they hear “Pick-Up Artist”, most people make the following mix: pickup = harassment.
But why throwing the stone to the seduction community when precisely, we PUAs, explain how sex-starved people could do otherwise?
A PUA is not a fucking selfish predator, but rather a selfless and generous guy who loves women … and men too as he helps his neighbor.
You do not understand the concept if you think a PUA is a guy who spends his time in the subway yelling “Damn miss you’re charming, wanna fuck? Oh I’m talking to you, bitch!”
I’ll try to explain what feminists see as “street harassment” and to show that the advice we give in the seduction community condone and definitely not encourage this attitude.
The first thing to understand is that street harassment is not pickup. From my readings on women’s sites, the following things may be considered harassment:
– Walking around a girl insistently after a refusal to discuss;
– Whistling chicks;
– Establishing physical contact without the consent of a person;
– Touching your cock by watching a woman on the subway ;
– Calling them “my beauty” without knowing them.
PUA give the following advice:
– Not be weird… if it does not bite, do not try to force things;
– Do not insult, accept the refusal and don’t feel affected;
– Do not whistle chicks, it is useless;
– Do not put a girl ill at ease, on the contrary;
– Do not follow women, drop the case if she does not make a step toward us. Too bad if we lose a girl who do not know how to show her interest but it’s better than harassing someone (btw women should learn how to clearly show their interest).
It is clear that we are going in the same direction. And if ever we call them “my beauty” it is a provocation because they have been nasty first.
On the women’s sites, the street harassment is presented as an exhausting commonplace for women. So we must understand that they are the subject of many invectives when walking alone in the public space.
Based on this premise, the conclusion would be that if we talk to them on the street, we bother them, so we should stop approaching. But it is reasonable to ask whether it is true or if some are quite happy in fact to have guys to say fuck off to as it flatters their ego.
In fact, we should also agree on what we mean: are they frequently approached or are they frequently harassed? It is not at all the same thing. I’m a bit surprised to have never observed a phenomenon of threatening harassment if it is that common.
Finally, it is not surprising therefore that people flirt more and more on the Internet. Although girls are reluctant to give their number for fear of phone HARASSMENT… And even if they complain of not making spontaneous encounters in real life. But feminism is not for nothing in it. Is it then really the friend of women? Or is it the game, the real friend of women who will reconcile women with men? Unless it is not the purpose of this conditioning, to reconcile men and women?
Who is concerned ?
The popular belief is that it would only be Arabs and Blacks in the 93 (Paris) who harass women. The truth is that not. I had girlfriends in Aix or even here in Lyon who reported me being followed up at home by a dude (once or twice in their lives) and those guys often were white, a bit old and clueless. Sometimes drunk, at night.
We could also think of it as a matter of education. Actually, yes and no. There’s very poorly educated guys who dare everything and respect nothing because they are thugs. There’s also guys from high society who, precisely because they are high, believe that all people are at their disposal.
Whoever you are, be humble. Respect others. These are values that we have in the community through our personal development approach and through our understanding from the perspective of women.
How do they react?
When one woman in the street is approached, sometimes we receive a frightened look that shows that they think we’re a rapist, a serial killer or a dangerous madman.
When approaching a group of women, they are often contemptuous and use derogatory comments. Like “who does he think he is? He’s ugly.” Mostly, they talk loudly, to humiliate us and vex us.
Such violent reactions can be explained, according to them, because they are afraid of the unknown. Even if they know very well that in 80% of rape cases, the victim knew her attacker. They don’t care about the reality of the statistics, they want that the nice guys stepping toward them without malice pay for the assholes.
Moreover, they are not sure they can rely on the solidarity of people around in case of aggression. But I reassure them: me neither. I saw a hidden camera of a guy who pretended to faint in the street: people were passing by ignoring him royally. It is a story of conformism. Social pressure. It has nothing to do with the fact you’re a woman or a man. “No one does anything so I do nothing. Especially if there is a chance that all this is trivial… I prefer this illusion, it is easier.”
They think they have no other choice but to undergo aggression if a guy is pressing. It’s wrong. There are, in the worst case, all kinds of weapons of self-defense. But there’s an even simpler solution: if they make clear to people around that they have a problem with this guy, a lot of guys will be happy to come to play it gentleman. But it has to be clear. In this situation, you never know if people are making a joke or something else. And, as I said, it’s easier to do nothing in such a situation and to mind his own business. Unless we know without a doubt that there is a problem. Otherwise the risk is to be ridiculous if it was her boyfriend and they were making a joke (yes people can joke with this kind of topic).
Would we help them if they were in danger and we knew it? Well, yes, we are not savages. We will not make a rotating rape! Finally, if they continue to be with us that odious it might happen… but we will not reach this extreme! What I mean is that it is not playing the bitch that will encourage people to help them if they have a problem one day. So, yes you have to well distinguish things, but this attitude is not healthy for anyone.
What about compliments on the physical appearance ?
For them, it is terribly upsetting and humiliating to be always reduced to their physical appearance. They don’t see (supposedly) what it is positive in the fact that a stranger tells them they are pretty. Good thing : in the community, compliments on appearance are not recommended.
However, it’s a bit of bad faith to blame the guys to judge on their physical appearance while when they reject us, it is often because they do not find us handsome enough. They do the same thing but we don’t feel REDUCED to our physical appearance, it’s just a part of us.
Finally, is it reasonable to ask if they would prefer to be ugly? Personally, I would like to be weekly approached by women, it would flatter my ego. Like what, you always want what you have not in life.
Women are not objects!
They feel objects (or pieces of meat) in the seduction game. They feel that they would know the difference between a man who approaches them only because he wants to try something or because he wanted to talk to them. But, sometimes it’s a bit of both. We approach a girl to see if she is interesting. And judge their reactions.
Understand please that sexual tension underlies almost every gender interactions, so we will not rule that out. But that’s not why we’re going to be rude. And they are also feeling this voltage, it makes them nervous. Did they identify it well? And if do they realize that sometimes they talk about guys like if we were sex objects to them?
Their belief is that 90% of dudes just want to flirt or fuck and that 95% of them would follow the girl to her house if she ever had the misfortune to answer politely. The game can help the guys to touch women and therefore to do not be sex-starved, making them less aggressive. Moreover, we do not stalk in the community, we avoid weird behavior.
Special circumstances to pickup?
They do not want people constantly bothering them when they are late for their work. However, on Saturday night in a bar, we would have the “right to approach”. But that would not mean that they are available or straight.
I swear that’s what I read. It’s complicated (I guess it’s less complicated between gay people) ! There would be socially acceptable environments to approach and others that are not. Limiting belief or reality?
A bit of both, I think. Although we can see that the success rates are lower in street pickup than in online or night. However, there are also girls who do not go out in clubs (they do not drink alcohol) and are not listed on any dating site (by principle) but would like to meet you. So, how to do ? Just learn to distinguish those who look open for a meeting and who are receptive to your approach. The seduction community also teaches the basics of synergology…
How do we interpret their reactions?
When you are rejected like a shit, it’s as if they deemed us unworthy to give us a few words. Seriously, you deserve better than coldness, only because you’re human. It can really hurt a morale. Especially since it’s a common behavior, so we could say we should better commit suicide if we are such a shit. Seduction, it does not need to be so complicated! I know that when a HB6 feels allowed to reject a very nice and polite guy, it can look strange. But you must understand that the pick-up, it’s more a way of thinking and acting to integrate than a matter of physical appearance.
They pass for snobs princesses among laymen. What is as true as the image of evil that have the guys who approach unknown girls. But it fucks an incredible mess in gender relations. That said, we love them anyway, we even idealizes them sometimes when we are young and inexperienced.
For us, when we pickup, it is likely to fall on girls who are : not open minded, frustrated, not comely, as complicated as possible. A fucking nightmare. However, a regular practice of the game will gradually change your beliefs about women and will teach you how to see the positive in this situation and holding yourself in high regard for having no black thoughts when you are rejected all the day. Besides, picking up all day long is exhausting I think, so you will also learn the meaning of the measure.
Should women approach?
From what I’ve read, they do not understand why you would want to approach a girl in the street. One could think that they have never seen a handsome guy in the street and the fantasy of the unknown is a myth. They complain that men are raised with the idea that it is to them to initiate seduction (but I swear we’d prefer they do it too). And they do believe that they will approach us if they feel like it. On the other hand, if they make a smile or say hello, they are afraid to be thought of as whores. So they do nothing, but that comes from a good intention.
It’s a shame because it would actually take away a share of harassment, of frustration for the guys. But they do not. What makes us live in a very individualistic society where the social networks are hyper developed. Only, most people prefer to turn in closed circuit: always the same social circle, no fancy, no exit out of their comfort zone…
If they like us but we do not come, they say either: “He has no balls”, “I’m ugly” or “this is a good guy since he did not approach me but since he does not approach me I will not meet him.”
The contradictions and limits of this argument!
The request information on the street and then the try to pickup just after (fake pretext) is considered street harassment by some women. That’s good because we rather suggest to be frank. But for having made a lot of direct pickup, I know I’ve heard quite often they loved when the seduction was disguised because it sounded more “natural.”
This is just one of the many things that show that all women are not in agreement. This is a problem: what to do? Listening to those who spit their venom and not picking up or pleasing those who like to be picked up and say it to us (but quietly because the others make them feel guilty)?
Feminists say they are tired of being approached in the street but yet I know many girls who complain that it never happens to them and wonder if they are pretty. Who to please?
We need to know before approaching them if they would like that. We should all wear bracelets of different colors indicating our intentions. Fuck, you have to come down to earth a bit. Goods guys do not want to approach the princesses who send them to Hell before the first sentence pronounced. And this is understandable. But then they complain to do not make meetings or to fall only on assholes.
In approaching in the street, we would violate their freedom to walk alone in a public place. It’s stupid to think like that. At that rate, by rejecting us, they violate our freedom to have sex or our freedom to be ugly… And by conditioning the guys to do not approach in order to do not be thought of as perverts, do not they violate the freedom of women who want to be picked up?
When approached with a common thing they snub because it sucks. When we are direct, they are offended because we are perverse. What to do ? Being elegant, refined, etc. Of course ! Why didn’t anyone think of this sooner ??? Except it does not work either. Or at least this is not the same category of criterion. Anyway, it is them who decide whether they want or not to be pains in the ass. We can do the same on two girls and having diametrically opposed reactions. And most do not realize they do not have what it takes to require such an elegant and refined man… (sorry)
Are feminists sometimes in bad faith?
From what I read: you’ll know that all women have one day been followed, hit, insulted…
And if you do not know women in this case, then it is that you simply know not enough women! It’s a bit easy as argument, I think. But well, let’s say it’s true.
However, if by some miracle, you’ve already managed to fuck chicks approached in the street, then it is because they were girls desperate for sex, with no real sentimental goal…
Here’s how the women’s sites describe the situation. If you are a woman: you are either a victim or a whore. Choose your side.
Which brings girls (sometimes very ugly) to invent arguments. It’s a race to outbid in order to do not be ridiculous “me I’m whistled every 100 meters”, “me it’s every 50m, I’m tired.” True story. Chicks have told me that. Damn but where do they live? Stop this crazy shit. I feel like they are conditioned to always see the negative in our intentions. It does not surprise me that France is the leading consumer of anxiolytics when I see the harrowing climate in which we live.
A balance of power?
Women have too much power over us, and most guys play their game. They are hardcore with us and we, we suffer. We make a lot of efforts to pickup while they play it hard to get. And then they complain about the efforts we made by saying it is oppressing. Many guys are just lost in this shit. In this article, we adopt the point of view of women, but it would be nice that they also try to experience life a little in our shoes sometimes.
I think they need understand that if they want full gender equality: it will delete all privileges like the stuff that are free for them and paying for the guys. Or if they speak badly to a guy, he will have the right to punch them. And when their pussy will itch them, they will have to go out and make efforts to pickup (and take knock backs). Still want it?
The liability of aggression?
If they are attacked, we seemingly always ask them if they have firmly expressed their refusal. That’s why they are surly when we talk to them. Sometimes without even having looked at us before. From our side, we have to do not have a misplaced ego and to don’t give a shit about fails.
We seemingly also ask how they were dressed, if they have sent mixed signals, etc. They are angry because they feel that they often a share the responsibility when they are assaulted. And also because they feel that we constantly minimize aggressions. Of course, this is not tolerable. That said, I have often heard opposite stories: guys accused of rape on the mere word of a woman who was actually lying to take revenge on their ex. It is clear that justice is in an impasse at that level, there’s nothing personal against women!
However, some (stupid) talk with men who approach them for fear of being attacked if ever they refused dialogue. It’s absurd ! Here, for once, this is a contradictory signal. This does not change the fact that if she said “no” it means no. Again, it would also be good that chicks who think “yes” but say “no” stop doing it. For this, it would be a good idea that the guys create a seduction embargo to regain value in their eyes… and to make the shitty quirks and the fact of not assuming they love sex disappear.
Do they suffer from a collective psychosis?
The trauma of some of the victims should not turn into collective psychosis. As painful as it is. I was attacked in the street by 4 Arabs and yet I still go out at night and see friend from the Maghreb. Real aggressions must be condemned. We agree on that. But life goes on…
Then, when I read that “even a strange look can be a form of street harassment, if it makes the girl feel uncomfortable”: I think it’s too much. There’s no limit, and everything is a matter of interpretation then. Sometimes I look at people in the street just to spend time, such as when I’m waiting for the tram. This is street harassment? Let’s all watch our feet then. It will be beautiful ! And what if the guy is a visually disabled person and has difficulty reading something, the girl will think he is watching her strangely?
A girl who would walk there would not know if I look at all the people passing or if it’s just her, so, according to her state of mind (and her conditionning) she will feel attacked or not. FYI, I sometimes watch girls without feeling any desire for them. And do not make me believe that chicks never watch guys (except lezzies).
To end this paragraph, with regard to clothing, I think everyone can dress as he wishes as long as there is no indecency. No girl should be raped or taken as a piece of meat if she has a skirt or show her belly like Britney Spears. We must learn empathy, me too sometimes I wear shorts! However, if a girl dresses is a super sexy way, she should not be mad at men if ever they stare at her ass when she turns (this is more a reflex than anything else, sorry, but normally she will notice nothing so it’s OK). With that said, the game teaches us to do not adopt this kind of behavior to raise our value. I saw a video of a guy who was beating another guy in a party just because he had stared at the neckline of his girlfriend. What behavior is the most inappropriate? Watching a neckline or beating a guy who is watching the chest of our girlfriend? Or the girlfriend who showed her bra? This is nonsense, these debates, but this is the level of the current debate about street harassment… It is obvious that it leads to nothing. Ideally, the girl can wear a neckline if she wants and the other guy can take a look (it’s natural) and the boyfriend is happy that his wife attracts glances. And all that in respect. But the problem is that a lot of people are not more evolved than a bonobo.
And abroad ?
The pickup is a difficult sport in France (overseas it’s far from being the same everywhere: there are many countries where the relations are uninhibited). But the worst is that the chicks that make shit like that are often bad in bed. So we will have a hard toùe, so that they take ten times more fun than us. Well…
We are in a country that has a macho mentality for a long time. Women have been victims of a lot of violence. They do not want to suffer, I understand, but I do not think they should take revenge on us. Their current way of fighting against violence is to remove the virility of men. But what attracts women, it is the virility. So it’s a paradox.
They wanted sexual freedom since May 68, with good reason. This release led to a strong desire for independence. To feel that they are beautiful, they need men (as we need women – see Maslow’s pyramid of needs). So they depend on us anyway. Second paradox. Except that society impose them to have a flawless appearance. Causing a lot of frustration on both sides. Instead of evacuating in orgasms, it discharges into hatred…
I had seen a movie where the two protagonists picked up on all day in the street and were wickedly turned off all the time. In the evening, to let off steam, they were beating a tramp who had spoken badly to them. We can deduce that this violence that women blame the men for, they feed it a little by being obnoxious (although it does not excuse anything like a clumsy compliment would not justify a woman who would punch a man).
There’s also a big problem in France which is that when we are attacked, we are a victim only if we do not defend. If we defend and that we hurt our aggressor, he can complain. It’s stupid !!! But it’s a bit the same haywire logic with this squabble “feminists against macho.” It’s a lose-lose scenario. Who benefits?
Abroad, it does not happen like that at all. In the countries of the East, Sweden, Australia: everything is different. Sometimes, women just ask a dick without any complex. Yet the guys do not feel like objects. I would say that the organization of our society is the cause of gender issues (see how justice is shit sometimes). Is it a good reason to leave the country? I do not think, rather let’s fight it! Let’s change things for the better before it’s too late (falling of demography)! But all together … not just the guys or just girls. It is a common fight, we’re in the same boat, one single chromosome sets us. But it is a little bit the same thing in United States and countries like that…
What advice and conclusions?
The first tip that feminists give: if you would not approach a straight man in some way, do not approach a woman that way. The second: they advise some guys to make a compliment and to leave without expecting anything in return.
Clearly, this is useless shitty ideas. On the other hand, here is what I think: do not just overcome your shyness but be attentive to the feelings of others. This is not because we dared to approach a woman that she owes us something.
Stay manly although the society says “be frustrated and shut up! And do not try to get out of the flock, accept your fate and shut up!” Continue your personal development process and never fucks up like assaulting or raping a woman (even if someone convinced you that rape fantasy exists: this is not a good way of thinking and especially not with a stranger with whom you never talked about it before… your belief should be that nobody is trying to get raped).
Have strong values and keep them! Gradually, the game will help to reverse the balance of power and women will more desire your cock. Continue to approach if you had a clear eye contact. Do your best to do not scare them (with that said if they’re afraid of everything you can do nothing about it).
However, if you spend your life especially wanting to upset no one, you will do nothing. Then, it’s a matter of choice.
In summary I would say they are right to complain when guys put hands on them when they do not agree. They are right to complain when they are calling a whore just because they are not interested. They are right when they are afraid to be followed up at home by people who have not been invited. But one should not see evil everywhere. Personally, I advise you to pickup in an original and classy way but to leave you as soon as you are not meeting enthusiasm (it can last just 2 seconds). Afterwards, if they pretend to don’t be happy while they would like to be kissed in fact: that’s their problem. The most important is especially do not put yourself in any trouble of this order (harassment, rape). Uncertainty should never exist! Their mentality should also change because there are people who thanked me much for having a little insisted and told me they were very happy to meet me in fact even if they were cold at the beginning and they especially do not regret because they have orgasmed like crazy. That would be better if white meant white and not gray. And if black meant black and not white for some and black for others.
Will feminists insult me in the comments or will they understand that I am doing it as much for the women as for the men?
I hope to have advanced the debate a bit and brought new light to my readers (male and female).